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Martin
Royal Member of BonBon
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 552
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 Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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Frankly, you're seeing this from the wrong point of view:
Obama promised that economy would get better, right? Well, as of now there are many gun shop owners that at night check the price lists, shed a happy tear, kiss a photo of Obama passionately then pray for his health 
As long as he's in the White House they make five times as much money, after all |
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Calhoun
Rank: Casual
Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Xebulon wrote: | | What Demotratic president isn't?... |
People are saying Obama is the most anti-gun president in American history... but that could just be paranoia again... I tend to be an optimist so I would bet you're right... just pisses me off that we have a president that believes such things are a good idea...
| Martin wrote: | | Frankly, you're seeing this from the wrong point of view:... |
True, the jump in cash flow must be nice... but what's going to happen to their sales if that one dollar .50 caliber bullet jumps to $50?
But this topic is getting a little too political... |
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peter_wolf
Rank: Veteran
Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Posts: 993
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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.....truth be told the gun i use for my self defense at home is a .306 rifle...with a shredder attachment....
if you don't know what a shredder is. it's something you attach to the barrel of your gun so that when the bullet comes out it weakens the bullets tips so it shreds on impact.....hence the name....
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Tadelesh
Royal Member of BonBon
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1578
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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Living in a country where it's illegal to own a firearm, I don't really know what all the fuss is about. 
All this talk about increasing prices of bullets, though, reminds me of a Chris Rock stand-up.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdJGcrUk2eE
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Wow, sarcasm! That's original. |
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Xebulon
Royal Member of BonBon
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 2112
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| peter_wolf wrote: | .....truth be told the gun i use for my self defense at home is a .306 rifle...with a shredder attachment....
if you don't know what a shredder is. it's something you attach to the barrel of your gun so that when the bullet comes out it weakens the bullets tips so it shreds on impact.....hence the name.... |
.306? I'm not familiar with that calibur. Do you mean .308 or .30-06 perchance?
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peter_wolf
Rank: Veteran
Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Posts: 993
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:17 am Post subject: |
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...ya i meant .30-06....don't know why i put that.....so sorry....i was thinking the .30-06 but for some reason put .306......
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Xebulon
Royal Member of BonBon
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 2112
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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Figured as much. 
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I like old jokes. With them I know when to laugh. |
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Xebulon
Royal Member of BonBon
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 2112
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| peter_wolf wrote: | | if you don't know what a shredder is. it's something you attach to the barrel of your gun so that when the bullet comes out it weakens the bullets tips so it shreds on impact.....hence the name.... |
I'm sorry but I have to ask, where did you find out about a so called shredder attachment? Because not only have I never heard of such a thing I can't find any information on it.
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peter_wolf
Rank: Veteran
Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Posts: 993
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:40 am Post subject: |
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that's because they where only made for the earlier models of the AR15 but shortly after its introduction.....the government got rid of them.....because they thought it was to barbaric.....and i kind of got to agree with them on that a shredder tip basically turns a rifle round into a shotgun round when it impacts on something.....so you can see why it's no longer in production and do to the fact that it was scraped so early after it's production a lot of people don't know about them.....you can make one your self pretty easy but i would not suggest doing so as it dose ruin the gun...
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Minsha
Rank: Casual
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| peter_wolf wrote: | | that's because they where only made for the earlier models of the AR15 but shortly after its introduction.....the government got rid of them.....because they thought it was to barbaric.....and i kind of got to agree with them on that a shredder tip basically turns a rifle round into a shotgun round when it impacts on something.....so you can see why it's no longer in production and do to the fact that it was scraped so early after it's production a lot of people don't know about them.....you can make one your self pretty easy but i would not suggest doing so as it dose ruin the gun... |
I'm scratching my head, wondering how such a device is physically, mechanically possible. Ya' got links? Diagrams? Pics?
I mean, let's look at basic ballistics, here. For an attachment at the end of a barrel to do something to the tip of a bullet, you'd effectively need some kind of trap-door device that has the resistance to impact the nose of the bullet and somehow remove part of the copper jacket from the bullet (thus violating the Hague Convention), which would have highly unpredictable trajectory of the ammunition. Effectively, you're turning an M16, a rifle whose only real advantages in the Vietnam era were ammo capacity and accuracy, into something less accurate and with even less range than an ancient smoothbore musket. Add to this that it's a .22 caliber bullet that only really does the damage it's (in)famous for at high velocity, and the attachment would remove most of that velocity to effectively turn a .22 into three pieces of bird shot.....and I can not only see why it'd be scrapped, but outright question why anyone would bother with such a ludicrous contraption to begin with.
Now, let's look at the effect you're describing. What it reads like, is that the device is either scoring the sides of the jacket so the bullet will split in half, which again, something so tiny, what's the point? Or, that it would remove the tip of the jacket, and create a sort of improvised soft/hollow-point bullet, the kind used for hunting, and found at the same prices as FMJ in any sporting goods shop. If you wanted your ammo to have an added effect, in terms of hydrostatic shock and wound channels, those bullets will "mushroom" and cause massive damage to the target. A bullet being reduced to countless, low-velocity (or even high-velocity) needles with no impact force and next to no wound channel is kind of useless in comparison. Add to this that the attachment, if it exists, is likely to cost at least $300 on top of the cost of getting a threaded barrel, versus a more powerful, more accurate, and thus more respectable effect for effectively free from the soft-point, why bother?
Last but not least, there's the fact that you want it for home defense. Let's ignore for a moment, that .30-06 is pretty much guaranteed to over-penetrate three rooms down even with SP ammo, and the concept established above, that you're creating the world's tiniest bird-shot gun for home defense. Home invaders who actually intend to do the home owners harm usually work in groups of at least two, unless they're particularly stupid. As such, we're talking multiple shots needed, very quickly. The average .30-06 is bolt-action, and holds five rounds. The exception to this is the M1 Garand, which is semi-automatic, but only holds 8 rounds. Unless you got a BAR with one of those attachments, you're simply not going to bring enough to the "party".
There's several reasons that shotguns are hailed as the best possible home-defense guns. They're intended for close-quarters, they do not overpenetrate, unless you're lobbing slugs, their stopping power and wound capabilities are best described as "turning the poor slob inside-out", and last but not least, often the sound of that first round being chambered is all the warning needed to send any would-be murderers/rapists/thieves running for their lives.
Now.....back on topic, for those who might want diagrams of how to take guns apart, articles on caring for them, et cetera....
http://surplusrifle.com |
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peter_wolf
Rank: Veteran
Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Posts: 993
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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lets first get some of your statistics right here one i was talking about the AR15 not the M16....the older version..... the M16 is completly diffreant from the AR15 and then the calliber is .223 not .22...and lets use the NATO set up witch would put it a 5.56mm with a range of 550 meters... not the best if you ask me......because of the fact that the AK was its rival witch has a range of 800 meters
now i did give a bad discription of how it works it dose not make the bullet into a bird shot....is makes the bullet crown easer......and the attachment is like a silencer in a way on how it attaches to the gun......as for the acuracy and range part it dose lower the range and makes it a little less acurate....now as for my .30-06 they do not make hollow points for that calliber and i can not get a hold of incindearies....
and now for my gun.....its a M1918 BAR....and i have a permeit for it......
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Minsha
Rank: Casual
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:33 am Post subject: |
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okay, so it works as the least plausible version of what I described. Some form of muzzle device that impacts the nose of the bullet, enough to damage the jacketing on the tip, but not enough to stop the bullet from exiting the barrel. This shearing off some of the jacketing somehow, creating a soft (not exactly hollow) point round, as opposed to an FMJ.
And yes, I'm aware that .223/5.56 isn't .22LR, (closer to a .22 magnum that did a bit of weight training, pre-steroids) but the bullet mass isn't that much greater, was my point. It's still a way-too-tiny projectile for any kind of soft-point-style bullet to do any extra damage. Especially when the bullet tumbles inside of soft tissue as it was at the time, bringing up the question of why the military back in the 60's would even BOTHER with it.
As to ammo availability....
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/product_info.php/pName/20rds-3006-federal-powershok-150gr-sp-ammo/cName/rifle-ammo-3006 some soft-point heavy ball
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=413225 cheaper SP heavy ball.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=292465 a bit expensive, but they make these "core lokt" bullets, which are designed to expand in a specific, controlled manner. Some have bronze ballistic tips that make the things expand even faster, while other brands use polymer or teflon.
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/core-Lokt.asp more on how SPs work
http://www.hi-vel.com/Catalog__21/Incendiary_Ammunition/incendiary_ammunition.html Incendiary can be gotten alot more easily online than you might think. Unfortunately, it IS expensive, to toss around. But then, if you can afford a BAR, then I'm sure $2 a shell isn't going to deter you that much. |
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soulrage
Rank: Total Noob
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| peter_wolf wrote: | lets first get some of your statistics right here one i was talking about the AR15 not the M16....the older version..... the M16 is completly diffreant from the AR15 and then the calliber is .223 not .22...and lets use the NATO set up witch would put it a 5.56mm with a range of 550 meters... not the best if you ask me......because of the fact that the AK was its rival witch has a range of 800 meters
now i did give a bad discription of how it works it dose not make the bullet into a bird shot....is makes the bullet crown easer......and the attachment is like a silencer in a way on how it attaches to the gun......as for the acuracy and range part it dose lower the range and makes it a little less acurate....now as for my .30-06 they do not make hollow points for that calliber and i can not get a hold of incindearies....
and now for my gun.....its a M1918 BAR....and i have a permeit for it...... |
Let us get some of your facts right since you seem to want to correct people about weapons. The AR15/M16 are not a different weapon. The AR15 was the Armalite model 15 its the civilian designation where as the M16 is the military designation. The weapon is not different. The only real changes made to the rifle in its close to 40 year life span have been changes to sights, the addition of a pictanay rail, various barrel lengths, a forward assist, shell deflector, different stock set ups, and different hand guards. The original M16 placed in to the military was the exact same as the AR15.
Now we talk about caliber and range. The caliber is is .223/5.56mm. Not either or. The 550 meters you quote is out of a 22 inch barrel at a point target. Now you can connect out to 600-700 meters at a point target with a 22in barreled AR/M16. Ive done it more than a few times. But 550 is a good average #. The standard round used is either a 55 grain or 62 grain serria boat tail. The AK isnt all that accurate past 400 meters to be honest. And its so unlikely you will get into a fire fight at that kind of range. If you do thats M249 SAW or M240 territory. Even then having them open up at that kind of range is a waste.
I highly doubt you have a BAR. If you do I want pics with the alleged shredder attachment. One there isnt a feasible way to "weaken" a bullet to explode/expand on impact.Two it would completely trash the ballistics of the bullet in flight. 3 it is completely agianst both the Geneva and Hague conventions. You sound like you know nothing about weapons and wanted to make yourself sound tough. This is an epic fail. The BAR is completely unsuitible for home defense. Its heavy, hard to control in a full auto mode from a standing position, and on the long side. This makes it awkward to handle in confined spaces. Not to mention you will overpenetrate anythig in your house.
Please know what you are talking about before you start speaking thank you. |
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