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JohnnyPsycho
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 Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| peter_wolf wrote: | | I'm sry about the other post i made here i got kind of mad when you said boxing. i never classify that as anything but a street thug fight. |
Hey now, I don't see why you have to put-down the time honored art of Western boxing. Sure, during this time period, there weren't often many well established rules in boxing matches, and bare-knuckle matches were still common, but it still doesn't mean it doesn't have an art to it. Just saying, since my fursona learned a bit of boxing from some Irish immigrants he met during his wandering period... it certainly helped keep him alive and (slightly) less beat-up over the years.
Then again, dirty fighting/bar-room brawling has a certain art to it as well, though of course the learning curve is pretty steep and there isn't a whole lot of training involved, just practical, hands-on experience... and, admittedly, quite a bit of ingenuity (just about anything you can hold in one or two hands can become a useful weapon, if you're clever and/or lucky)
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henkcobra
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| JohnnyPsycho wrote: | | peter_wolf wrote: | | I'm sry about the other post i made here i got kind of mad when you said boxing. i never classify that as anything but a street thug fight. |
Hey now, I don't see why you have to put-down the time honored art of Western boxing. Sure, during this time period, there weren't often many well established rules in boxing matches, and bare-knuckle matches were still common, but it still doesn't mean it doesn't have an art to it. Just saying, since my fursona learned a bit of boxing from some Irish immigrants he met during his wandering period... it certainly helped keep him alive and (slightly) less beat-up over the years.
Then again, dirty fighting/bar-room brawling has a certain art to it as well, though of course the learning curve is pretty steep and there isn't a whole lot of training involved, just practical, hands-on experience... and, admittedly, quite a bit of ingenuity (just about anything you can hold in one or two hands can become a useful weapon, if you're clever and/or lucky) |
You want a bar-fight with person how are holding guns, katana's, aces, daggers and are trained in fighting techniques?!
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JohnnyPsycho
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| henkcobra wrote: | | You want a bar-fight with person how are holding guns, katana's, aces, daggers and are trained in fighting techniques?! |
No, I'm not asking for a bar-fight with anyone, just that when they happen, a bottle to the head is dangerously simple and effective. Bottles in real-life don't just break into pieces like stage-glass, you have to hit something with a lot greater force than you may realize just to crack a bottle and can cause some serious damage. You might limit yourself to a sword, but that's nothing when one can arm themselves with an entire arsenal of bottles, pool cues, bar-stools, chairs, pool balls, darts, wooden signs, tables, counter-tops, random unconscious drunks, spitoons, light fixtures, musical instruments (sorry Ashton), glasswear, kegs, barrels, plumbing/tap fixtures, poles, doors, chandeliers, boots, belts, chains, towels, the alcoholic liquids inside bottles and glasswear, happless bystanders, other brawlers, boot-spurs, watch chains, cork screws, mops, buckets, lit lamps and lanterns, ladies' purses, brooms, pies,... I think you see where I'm going with all of this. Most of all, of course, is being able to assess your surroundings, and the more familiar you are with the surroundings, the easier it becomes to know where to reach for that cue ball to chuck at someone's face in the middle of a chaotic brawl.
Besides, not everyone trained in fighting techniques is well-trained, and most tend to be too stiff and inflexible to adapt to a no-rules environment... sparring matches and tournaments with rules are a far cry from a real-life fight [OOC: not only the premise of Bruce Lee's Jeet Kun Do "style without style" philosophy, but it's also the reason guys like Tank Abbott were able to do so well in mixed martial arts tournaments versus opponents trained in more traditional martial arts styles]. Swords carry the disadvantage of needing to get close, even more-so daggers. And the second a gun gets pulled... well, I suppose I already have that handled *pats his sidearm*
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JohnnyPsycho
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:51 am Post subject: |
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Just want to add one more thing, before in inevitable pissing-match... it doesn't matter what fighting techniques you use, what styles you learned, or what weapons you utilize, fighting is inevitably a battle of the wills. Making the opponent surrender or back down is preferable to physical incapacitating them, especially if you can make them back down before a fight even begins. And always, always remember that a calm mind is key. If you can piss off your opponent, make them lose their concentration, they'll be much more likely to do something stupid, and you win. That's why you should try to tell jokes during a fight...
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Chaosengine
Rank: Super Veteran
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| JohnnyPsycho wrote: | No, I'm not asking for a bar-fight with anyone, just that when they happen, a bottle to the head is dangerously simple and effective. Bottles in real-life don't just break into pieces like stage-glass, you have to hit something with a lot greater force than you may realize just to crack a bottle and can cause some serious damage. You might limit yourself to a sword, but that's nothing when one can arm themselves with an entire arsenal of bottles, pool cues, bar-stools, chairs, pool balls, darts, wooden signs, tables, counter-tops, random unconscious drunks, spitoons, light fixtures, musical instruments (sorry Ashton), glasswear, kegs, barrels, plumbing/tap fixtures, poles, doors, chandeliers, boots, belts, chains, towels, the alcoholic liquids inside bottles and glasswear, happless bystanders, other brawlers, boot-spurs, watch chains, cork screws, mops, buckets, lit lamps and lanterns, ladies' purses, brooms, pies,... I think you see where I'm going with all of this. Most of all, of course, is being able to assess your surroundings, and the more familiar you are with the surroundings, the easier it becomes to know where to reach for that cue ball to chuck at someone's face in the middle of a chaotic brawl.
Besides, not everyone trained in fighting techniques is well-trained, and most tend to be too stiff and inflexible to adapt to a no-rules environment... sparring matches and tournaments with rules are a far cry from a real-life fight [OOC: not only the premise of Bruce Lee's Jeet Kun Do "style without style" philosophy, but it's also the reason guys like Tank Abbott were able to do so well in mixed martial arts tournaments versus opponents trained in more traditional martial arts styles]. Swords carry the disadvantage of needing to get close, even more-so daggers. And the second a gun gets pulled... well, I suppose I already have that handled *pats his sidearm* |
I really like how you worded this post. I haven't heard anyone describe the John Wayne-esqe traditional bar fight so eloquently.
I guess our resident coyote-cowboy has been in a few, lol. 
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Tadelesh
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: |
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In addition to what Johnny said about bar-fights, you can always throw peanuts or something on the floor, causing the unwary to slip up. 
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peter_wolf
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:29 am Post subject: |
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i get what you are saying johnny but you have to under stand that normal boxing and bar brawls are shunned upon by true martial artist not saying that its not a fighting style of its own or anything i just don't think you should classify any martial art style with another style the only instance where that would even be considered is if the style is derived form another.
and seriously have you seen a Mui Thai fighter actually fight there in a class of there own just watch i have put in my signature this guy takes on 100 men and only takes one hit the whole match and that's at the very beginning when some one stabs him with a knife.
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henkcobra
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peter_wolf
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:06 am Post subject: |
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um was not going for a fight.
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Armadillon
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:23 am Post subject: |
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Johnny you make me proud to be where I come from 
Being from the southwest myself it's possible that our fursona's could have even met previously that'd make an interesting story 
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Drofgod969
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| peter_wolf wrote: | | bar brawls are shunned upon by true martial artist |
I can think of one right now that lerns from bar fights. Drunken Master.
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Shadow9808
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| peter_wolf wrote: | o i see now well then if that's the case
hey shadow want to have a competition
it will be who can destroy the bigger bolder, what do you say if you agree i will start a new thread for the competition so we don't dirty up the room |
I'll pass. The only reason Leon hits stone in the first place is training. And there is nothing wrong with a person usng a job to keep trained. As for even dueling, that's not his style, ether. He's instictivly bred to kill things that aren't natural, not folks who are natural.
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Shadow9808
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JohnnyPsycho
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| peter_wolf wrote: | i get what you are saying johnny but you have to under stand that normal boxing and bar brawls are shunned upon by true martial artist not saying that its not a fighting style of its own or anything i just don't think you should classify any martial art style with another style the only instance where that would even be considered is if the style is derived form another.
and seriously have you seen a Mui Thai fighter actually fight there in a class of there own just watch i have put in my signature this guy takes on 100 men and only takes one hit the whole match and that's at the very beginning when some one stabs him with a knife. |
I will admit, "dirty fighting" is not a style, per se... it's just a pragmatic use of techniques that are designed to cause damage, distraction, and/or discomfort to your opponent by exploiting the primary weakness of most fighters: their belief in a fair contest, and that the strongest or most skilled should always win. Dirty fighting is basically the tool of the crafty rather than the strong, and let's face it, the world outside of a dojo or arena has no referees.
Still, i find it more than a little hypocritical for a martial artist to turn their nose up at the art of boxing, when pugilism is one of the world's oldest contest sports (evidence of it existing, in one form or another, exists as far back as the third century B.C., among the Sumerians and Egyptians). True, it only focuses on punches, but it's one of the most highly regulated contest sports in the world... not only are you allowed only to punch (no elbows, knees, feet, or grapples), but there's only certain areas of the body that you're allowed to punch as well! Pugilism and wrestling may not be what most people first think of when you hear the term "martial art", but that's exactly what they are: codified training practices and traditions of combat, each focusing on specific aspects of human combat (punching/striking and grappling, respectively).
Also, I have seen a couple Muay Thai matches, and when Muay Thai and similar styles are pitted against eachother, it's entertaining and brutal to behold. On the other-hand, when you're talking about mixed martial arts, even Muay Thai practitioners find themselves hard pressed against experienced grapplers (like practitioners of Brazilian Jiu-jitsu or even shoot wrestling). I'm not putting down your style of choice (I for one think Ong Bak: The Thai Warrior was one of the most impressive martial arts films I've seen in a long time, and look forward to seeing more from Tony Jaa), just pointing out it's mostly a "striking" style, and that every style has an inherent flaw. It's working around those flaws that seperate students from true masters.
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Chaosengine
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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There actually is a recognized style of fighting that, in essence, IS "dirty fighting".
Called Krav Maga, it is the official fighting style utilized by the Isreali army and is almost literally "anything goes".
The most important principles of Krav Maga include...
Do not get hurt
Quickly neutralize the attacker
Quickly transition from defensive to offensive techniques
Exploit the natural reflexes of the body
Exploit all vulnerable points on the body
Use any available objects as aids
So it actually TEACHES you to go for the dirty shots and bash 'em with whatever is at hand.
Nice.
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"One night in Bangkok and the world's your oyster.
The bars are temples, but the pearls ain't free...
You'll find a god in every golden cloister,
And if you're lucky then the god's a she..." |
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peter_wolf
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnnyPsycho wrote: | | peter_wolf wrote: | i get what you are saying johnny but you have to under stand that normal boxing and bar brawls are shunned upon by true martial artist not saying that its not a fighting style of its own or anything i just don't think you should classify any martial art style with another style the only instance where that would even be considered is if the style is derived form another.
and seriously have you seen a Mui Thai fighter actually fight there in a class of there own just watch i have put in my signature this guy takes on 100 men and only takes one hit the whole match and that's at the very beginning when some one stabs him with a knife. |
I will admit, "dirty fighting" is not a style, per se... it's just a pragmatic use of techniques that are designed to cause damage, distraction, and/or discomfort to your opponent by exploiting the primary weakness of most fighters: their belief in a fair contest, and that the strongest or most skilled should always win. Dirty fighting is basically the tool of the crafty rather than the strong, and let's face it, the world outside of a dojo or arena has no referees.
Still, i find it more than a little hypocritical for a martial artist to turn their nose up at the art of boxing, when pugilism is one of the world's oldest contest sports (evidence of it existing, in one form or another, exists as far back as the third century B.C., among the Sumerians and Egyptians). True, it only focuses on punches, but it's one of the most highly regulated contest sports in the world... not only are you allowed only to punch (no elbows, knees, feet, or grapples), but there's only certain areas of the body that you're allowed to punch as well! Pugilism and wrestling may not be what most people first think of when you hear the term "martial art", but that's exactly what they are: codified training practices and traditions of combat, each focusing on specific aspects of human combat (punching/striking and grappling, respectively).
Also, I have seen a couple Muay Thai matches, and when Muay Thai and similar styles are pitted against eachother, it's entertaining and brutal to behold. On the other-hand, when you're talking about mixed martial arts, even Muay Thai practitioners find themselves hard pressed against experienced grapplers (like practitioners of Brazilian Jiu-jitsu or even shoot wrestling). I'm not putting down your style of choice (I for one think Ong Bak: The Thai Warrior was one of the most impressive martial arts films I've seen in a long time, and look forward to seeing more from Tony Jaa), just pointing out it's mostly a "striking" style, and that every style has an inherent flaw. It's working around those flaws that seperate students from true masters. |
yes you are right but what I'm trying to say is that all fighting styles look down at each other because they are taught that there's is better. now saying that its true that they all have a flaw but if you are a true martial artist you can find a way around it and make that flaw your strength in the end, and when you say Muay Thai you have to relies that there are over 20 different forms of it to date and 5 main forms of it so if you want to say that it struggles against mix martial artist fighters you have to think that they are only using one type of it and if they had the other types there would be no struggle the same goes for savat and jujitsu they all have different forms of it that you can learn but if you master all forms then there's nothing that could possibly stop you in a fight
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JohnnyPsycho
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info, Chaos! Of course, Krav Maga doesn't exist in 1895, but it's still nice information to have.
I completely understand what you're getting at, peter... I took Tae Kwon Do years ago for a short time, and they also tried to teach us how their style was superior to others (nevermind the fact that it's almost purely about striking, primarily with kicks, which can be dangerous to use in real combat if you're not well-trained). Every discipline has its strengths, and it's certain that any teacher of beginning students will point out those strengths more often at first than the weaknesses... it's all a part of bragging rights.
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Tadelesh
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Whereas Tadelesh, on the other hand, prefers bojutsu, the martial art of using a bo, a six-foot staff. Many of the techniques used in bojutsu closely resemble those used in other martial arts. You can fight a little dirty with the bo (like sweeping dirt or sand into your opponent's eyes with one end of it).
Anyway, this thread was for professions, not styles of fighting. How did we ever get onto this subject?
What does everyone think of our new tobaccanist, Caroline? I think it's a good idea for a profession, though I won't be using her myself. What do others think? (Sorry if I shouldn't mention someone's profession without them being here to talk about it themselves. )
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peter_wolf
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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i like it a lot i might go in a see whats there hoping to find some tobacco from my home country
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JohnnyPsycho
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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It's a very cool idea, I'm not sure why no one else thought of it before. I'd also be a customer at such a place (not sure if Mr. Six-Killer smokes, since I don't in real-life, but considering the importance of tobacco to my culture as a prayer aid and holy gift, I'm sure my fursona would love this place)
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Chaosengine
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| JohnnyPsycho wrote: | | Thanks for the info, Chaos! Of course, Krav Maga doesn't exist in 1895, but it's still nice information to have. |
I got a little OT on that one...  it was all the bar fightin' talk what done it... eheh.
Anyway, the tobaccoist IS a great idea. At this point in history, the cigar is top of the list for gentlemanly consumption and Italy did have a pretty good abundance of exotic tobacco they cultivated. (We in the U.S. didn't have ALL of it, lol.)
I think our president at the time (Cleveland if I'm not mistaken) was a big cigar afficionado.
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"One night in Bangkok and the world's your oyster.
The bars are temples, but the pearls ain't free...
You'll find a god in every golden cloister,
And if you're lucky then the god's a she..." |
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Drofgod969
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: |
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I think that the store should do quite nicely. I think i will have Drodel smoke but only in his spare time.
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yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. that's why it is called the present.
quoted by master Oogway off kong fu panda
Some weep, some cry, some make couches fly. - Katmir
Let me stand behind you in times of peace, let me stand infront of you in times of war, let me stand beside you as a equall, as a friend. |
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LabrnMystic
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnnyPsycho wrote: | | ...Then again, dirty fighting/bar-room brawling has a certain art to it as well, though of course the learning curve is pretty steep and there isn't a whole lot of training involved, just practical, hands-on experience... and, admittedly, quite a bit of ingenuity (just about anything you can hold in one or two hands can become a useful weapon, if you're clever and/or lucky) |
Nothing like an "out of nowhere" brawl to get you on your toes. A skirmish really puts you in perspective of just how well you could defend yourself when all hell breaks loose.
By the by, are you having a bully day?
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Shadow9808
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| LabrnMystic wrote: | | JohnnyPsycho wrote: | | ...Then again, dirty fighting/bar-room brawling has a certain art to it as well, though of course the learning curve is pretty steep and there isn't a whole lot of training involved, just practical, hands-on experience... and, admittedly, quite a bit of ingenuity (just about anything you can hold in one or two hands can become a useful weapon, if you're clever and/or lucky) |
Nothing like an "out of nowhere" brawl to get you on your toes. A skirmish really puts you in perspective of just how well you could defend yourself when all hell breaks loose.
By the by, are you having a bully day? |
Bully!
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Ashton Gray
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:42 am Post subject: |
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I'll warn you all right now that unless you want to end up face first into the wall, you'll keep your "bullying" far away from me. Unless you mean something other than the most commonly known meaning for the term "bully", then you should disregard this.
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Tsavo
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Tadelesh wrote: |
What does everyone think of our new tobaccanist, Caroline? I think it's a good idea for a profession, though |
Really a good period job. Tobacco use is still booming. In fact cigarettes are just becoming popular with both men and women in this time. Beforehand men stuck more to pipes and cigars; but machine rolled cigarettes were catching on everywhere thanks to Turkish tobacco.
As for my character I can see Tsavo still enjoying a cigar on a quiet night after closing down the bar.
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Caroline
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | What does everyone think of our new tobaccanist, Caroline? I think it's a good idea for a profession, though |
Um... great... now i'll have to really put some effort into keeping this tobacco store alive. I... um... didn't think it would be that big a deal. I mean, really.
But, um... thanks. It's weird having everyone kinda like the idea of a tobacconist. Weird-good, and... now I really have to do some looking up about what a tobacconist does, store stuff, more about the history of the leaf and it's consumption use.
Caroline Wellwater |
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LabrnMystic
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| Ashton Gray wrote: | | I'll warn you all right now that unless you want to end up face first into the wall, you'll keep your "bullying" far away from me. Unless you mean something other than the most commonly known meaning for the term "bully", then you should disregard this. |
Relax Ashton. We were using it in the old time referrence as Theodore Roosevelt once did. Bully = Excellent.
It was also a reference to a Family Guy episode, which Peter was flashbacking to the Great Depression. "I'm having a bully day. Are you having a bully day?" which I'm glad to see Shadow picked up on. ^_^
As for you Caroline, for one, Welcome. I don't think I've introduced or met you yet, but I'm sure I'll stumble across the correct thread soon enough. I'll warn you, be prepared to meet a group of interesting and welcoming types here. Be it from occupations, descriptions, sexual tips, or what to cook your turkey in.
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kommy
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| LabrnMystic wrote: | | I'll warn you, be prepared to meet a group of interesting and welcoming types here. Be it from occupations, descriptions, sexual tips, or what to cook your turkey in. |
Or a mix of all of the above.
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Shadow9808
Royal Member of BonBon
Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Posts: 610
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I both knew of the qoute and had everything click together when I saw Family Guy. As for Kommy's statement, I'd heed her advice well. She's being VERY honest with ya.
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