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[troyholc]

It was suggested I post this over here. Didn't think about it on the original post. Thanks for reminding me, MasterJedi!

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To anyone:

Alley brought it up and since it has little to do with the NEW POPE topic, I thought I would start a new topic. Here's some questions I was wondering:

1. Have you seen Farenheit 9/11?

2. Have you seen Farenhype 9/11?

3. Did your choice to see/not see either of the above films because of your political views or already formed ideas from the press coverage?

4. What is your opinion on the war in Iraq and Afghanistan?

5. Was your opinion changed at all by either film, or by someother media (like these message boards)?

This can be hot button topic, but it seems to me from other post everyone hear respects that these are people's opinions.

Here are my answers:

I have seen both, although not in the theater. I chose not to see Farenheit 9/11 in the theater (Farenhype was never in the theater, at least not in my area) because I had heard Michael Moore on many news programs and didn't want to give him the $10 from the theater. Renting it for $2.50 was a more appropriate rate for me. I do support both wars, although not the Iraq war for the reasons given. I support that one because we said we would help the Shiite's in 1991 if they rose up against Saddam. They did and we didn't. They we slaughtered. I feel we just finally did the right thing and lived up to our word, even if the reasons given were different. In addition, people against the war say we rose up against Britain for our freedom, if people in other countries don't like their government they should do the same. The trouble is we didn't rise up alone. France helped (and only because they hated the British, not because they liked us). Neither really changed my opinion because both had twisted facts - taken parts of reality, mix them with their opinion and spit out their view of the truth. I probably had more issue's with Farenheit 9/11 because at times he went back to Flint, Michigan, near where I live and even spoke about a mall I use to work in and his portrayal of it as a rich mall was ridiculous. I actually live very close to a rich mall and the mall he talked about was nowhere near rich.

troyholc
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... having an idea is better. It's easier to change ideas. Changing a belief is a lot trickier. - 13th Apostle, "Dogma"

[calvert]

[rastus]

calvert..fantastic answers on questions 3 & 4.

as long as their are intelligent , reasonable , sensible , logical people like yourself in your country..well then the world might still stand a chance of surviving.

i am more to the left than your opinion(although i only say that on the above opinion alone) but thats all life affords us mere minions of the powerful...opinions.

i don't justify either side, but as you say..it is time honoured human behaviour of the powerful.

if it is acceptable for america to attack people who support or organise terror organisations then it is rather hypocritical to be outraged when other groups attack american interests. their record as terror sponsors is appalling.

[calvert]

[troyholc]

Calvert:

Thanks for the reply to my message. Very interesting answers. I completely agree with your recent statement about not trusting people in power, but unfortunately we have to have them there. If they weren't each person individually would be determining their own justice and everyone would live in terror.

The one thing I would like to see happen is a constitutional amendment banning all poltical parties. This would force everyone to run on their own values and beliefs instead of having this title that may or may not be the real way they believe. The perfect example is, do you believe John McCain and Sean Hannity think exactly the same and should both be looked at as Republicans? John McCain is a moderate, willing to listen to all sides before making a decision and will go against the party line if he feels it is best. Sean Hannity is of the mind set that he is right and if you disagree with him, your arguements just prove how stupid you are and how smart (and right) he is. But again these two are in the same party. I would have a lot more faith in our leaders if there were no political parties.

You also mentioned that people like Al Queda is still fighting the crusades. I don't completely agree with that. I do as far as them fighting Western Europe and the US (and they will come after the French considering they had more crusades start there than any other country in Europe). As far as the Israel issue though it goes much futher back: about 4000 years futher back. When Moses lead the Israelites out of Egypt they found the "Promised Land" or present day Israel. The trouble is Arabs already lived there, the ancestors of the Palastinians. The main issue I have the the peace-only/never war people in the US is they don't understand this. Yoou can be as kind as you want to every Muslim and Arab and give up on supporting Israel and it won't stop them from killing. They will still have this revenge issue of the crusades, and even if they didn't: do we really want to stand by and watch while once again every Jew is being exterminated, this time over a 5000 year old feud? i would not feel comfortable doing so, even though Israel has made many horrible choices (putting Jewish settlements right in the middle of the Palastinians and not expecting to anger them ).

Well, I am starting to ramble now, too. Thanks again for your response to my questions. I hope others do so. I would love to see how far this goes.

troyholc
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... having an idea is better. It's easier to change ideas. Changing a belief is a lot trickier. - 13th Apostle, "Dogma"

[calvert]

[calvert]

Sorry...clicked submit twice
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"When it comes to fishin'...lets make one thing clear...the bait's over there...the brew's right here. Two six packs and a big bag of ice...yo we didn't even catch a bite, but the brew tasted nice"

[Freman]

I think it's a line from the Pirates of Penzance, in the song of the pirate king.

"for many a king on a gilded throne, if he wants to call his crown his own, must manage somehow to get through, many a worse thing than ever I'd do"

My memory may not be entirely accurate but the general thrust is that those holding onto the reins of power will engage in less than moral activities.

I'm not sure if the Arabs of today are descended from the Caananites that Joshua and company dispossessed. Those left in the land at that time would probably have died in battle, the smart ones (probably the vast majority) upon seeing the Hebrew victory tally would probably have moved out into distant lands and interbred etc till their racial group was merged out of existence.

Ishmael's sons were in Edom and Midian, todays Jordon if I remember correctly. I think The Hebrew were even forbidden to attack them based on their kinship.

1492BC was the calculated year they came out of Egypt, that would put them in Caanan about 1450BC. They've dated the ruins of Jericho between 1550-1400BC which is close enough.

[Zombie]

I've seen this and it just make's me upset. I don't like Michael Moore, I don't like how he twist's things to make them to be what he believe's in. What I didn't like was how he put like poor middle class people are the one's who join the military and sent to fight a war. My biggest is these people didnt get drafted, they didnt have a gun to their head to join.

Also him showing that one mom who lost her son and then now she's all anti war cause her son was killed and it was like well what about the other soldiers why should just her son be brought back to her, it just really made me sick and upset the way he tries to protray everything to his likings or what he wants us to believe.

I support Bush all the way, and I know we can't just leave now we have to finish what we started.

Also the other thing he liked to push was we knew about threats well if we jumped to every single threat that was made to the US or what not then we might as well just live in a bomb shelter or something and be scared the rest of our lives.
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[don_juan_darko]

I'm a liberal. For those uninformed liberal means 'open minded'.

Anyway, I don't think either movie affected anyone's voting opinion.

Just like when people watch 'Super Size Me' they aren't going to stop eating at McDonalds. Everyone knows McDonalds is not good for your health, but people eat there because its convenient, for example, I swore off eating fast food this summer, and guess what? I went shopping with my brother about two days later, we were both starving by the end of the day, and where do we go? McDonalds... its kinda funny and sad at the same time...

Anyway, anyone who is serious about quitting a bad habit, do this, tell a close friend that the next time you do whatever it is you don't want to do, he gets to kick you in the nuts one-hundred times.

I actually did this to prevent myself from wasting money on video games, and my friend is holding me to it.

In case anyone is wondering, the reason I decided to give up video games is becuase...

1. They are expensive.
2. I've wasted enough of my life playing them.
3. Its not helping my love life any.

Gee... I sure got off topic there...

By the way, its 'Fahrenheit' not 'Farenheit'
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