SexyFighters.com

[Gui Cirrus]

I went through Jillian's Strip Tease Theatre yesterday, and something strikes me as curious... Though the character belongs to one of the forumers here, the copyright notice on the artworke claims the character as Vanessa's. At least in function, anyway. I'm pretty sure this is an unintentional omission, as the biography does indeed specify that Jillian is the avatar of one of the forumers. Given that the copyright phrase used is the same on basically all of the artworke I've looked at thus far, I'd guess she (or whoever tosses it in there) just copy & pastes the same phrase.

It's not that critical to me personally, and you may have gotten permission from Jillian's owner. I just figured I'd bring it up, since it COULD cause trouble sometime down the line (depending).

[Ashton Gray]

Our characters are our own, but the artwork belongs to Vanessa Santato and to her alone. ANY contestation that her artwork is not her own will be met with the strongest and most severe reaction, legal and/or otherwise.
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Silentium est aurum

[JohnnyPsycho]

Yeah, I was just about to say what Ashton said already... While the characters, biographies, and stories that we create for our fursonas (fursonae?) are our own, the graphical depictions of them are Vanessa's creations, since they are her artwork and the characters appear in her comic. Otherwise, it would become too confusing a task to hunt down every person whose character makes an appearance in her work in order to get their permission for furture depictions, cameo appearances, reprints, etc.

To make things even weirder for you, I just got done with a fanart (I promise to post it as soon as I can) depicting my and Kommy's characters, but strongly influenced by Vanessa's art style. As a result, the artwork is mine, but I give credit for the characters to Vanessa, since they're based on her designs, despite Johnny Six-Killer being my own fursona. Or something like that, I'm still figuring out the details...
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Johnny's Fanfics (including Sureshot! A Bon Bon Tale)

Johnny's backstory
Johnny, Mark II (Project Aten character)

[kommy]

Not to mention the not insignificant detail that I might be involved in your plans somewhere, too.

What is this, anyway? Is it something naughty, Johnny?
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"Doktor! Are you sure this will work?!" "HAHA! I HAVE NO IDEA!"

[Gui Cirrus]

Please, don't jump for your torches. I'm not claiming the artworke isn't Vanessa's. I thinke it's spectacular; suffice I'm paying to see more of it. =P I am only talkeing about her usage of other peoples' characters, as that's the only thing that might cause problems.

The conflict is with the statement on certain images, like this. To quote, "Story, characters and art by Vanessa Santato." And while this is true when referring to the Pleasure Bon Bon website as a whole, it is NOT true in regards to the content of the image which it is a part of: While the artistic representation OF the character is hers, the character itself is not. And with this being a paysite, one could make a case that the owners of this site are using another person's intellectual property for profit, without royalties, consent, or even crediting the source. Which is somewhere in the range of illegal or unlawful (depending on the country, I suppose). There IS some leeway in that the term 'copyright' is never actually used in that tag, but...I wouldn't suspect that to helpe much in a court. =/

Now I'm not suggesting that this is GOING to happen—or, indeed, that it even should; there's mention that it's someone else's character right there on the image, after all, just not in legalese. As I said earlier, I would suspect this was an honest mistake, or that the thought never even occured. But to me personally, it would be upsetting to see folke get in trouble for something so trivial (and so easily covered), so I figured it was at least worth bringing to the attention of...well, whomever it may concern.

Not tryin' to tell people how to do stuff. Just offering advice, neh? =)

[Drofgod969]

Trust me drop this. There is nothing wrong here. I see where you are coming but you are going about it all wrong. so just drop it.
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yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. that's why it is called the present.
quoted by master Oogway off kong fu panda
Some weep, some cry, some make couches fly. - Katmir
Let me stand behind you in times of peace, let me stand infront of you in times of war, let me stand beside you as a equall, as a friend.

[Gui Cirrus]

Uh...if you're going to tell me to stop, I'd at least like a rationalization for it beyond "you're going about it all wrong." =/ That doesn't tell me a thing.

[Armadillon]

[Ashton Gray]

Here's a simple example: Say you walk up to a sculptor and give them a detailed description of exactly what you want them to sculpt. The idea you give is your own, hence making the character depicted in the sculptor's creation your own, but the physical reprisentation of the character depicted in the stone the sculptor has just finished would belong to them. (if this seems inaccurate or too simple, please, speak up. I've been having to simplify things like this a lot lately so I may have overdone it or just plain gotten it wrong somewhere)
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Silentium est aurum

[JohnnyPsycho]

It would be slightly different if the character in question were already depicted in other works, such as another artists' webcomic or series of written fiction (I know other artists' characters, like Greycat and his characters, have appeared in cameos before, among others). The fact that they then would pre-exist as creations under copywrite of the original creator would probably change things more than slightly, but in the large part most of the forum avatars have been characters created in the forum, or augmented from pre-existing fursonas to fit within the setting created by Vanessa (for my part, there was no Johnny Six-Killer before PBB, so my character was tailor made to fit within the setting anyway).

Plus, the way I see it, as much as I like Johnny Six-Killer, I can always create more characters for myself if a question of who "really owns" the character were to ever come up. I suppose it's no secret that I love creating new and interesting characters as much as possible... and I completely entrust my virtual representative in Vanessa's skilled hands.
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Johnny's Fanfics (including Sureshot! A Bon Bon Tale)

Johnny's backstory
Johnny, Mark II (Project Aten character)

[JohnnyPsycho]

[Gui Cirrus]

[Tadelesh]

I don't want to really get into this, but there's just one thing I noticed that I feel the need to comment on:

[JohnnyPsycho]

Yes, Tadelesh is correct on that. Consent is part and parcel with having a fursona drawn and included in the story. The very fact that we give her so many details of our characters to aid her in designing and drawing the characters also can be construed as consent. We gave her all the pertinent information and ideas, but she used her own artistic sensibilities to fill in any blanks and create the finished product.
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Johnny's Fanfics (including Sureshot! A Bon Bon Tale)

Johnny's backstory
Johnny, Mark II (Project Aten character)

[LabrnMystic]

Actually, I recall Vanessa and Ronald talking of this issue far back in the beginning of the site. I know that our characters, Labrn and Mystic, are safely mine, since I had previous works of them to show they are mine.

As far as those who's characters were merely concepts that Vanessa drew and created on paper for the first time, I believe she has some rights to the characters. You'll have to double check with Ronald, being the law man of this place, but I believe that Vanessa has rights to characters she drew for the first time, because she often reuses characters in the comic, as fillers and cameos.
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The suspense is killing me. I hope it will last.

[Vanessa]

hi Gui Cirrus!
Er..your reasoning is right and at the same time wrong, because you don't keep into account that in PBB there are two kinds of Avatar:
the commissioned ones and the lent ones, ( to take it easy).
With "commissioned" I mean characters like Jillian and at least 80% of the remaining avatars that I've created and invented graphically and that before that moment didn't exist.
When Jillian (I'm using her as an example) has described her avatar she's only mentioned the race, color and personality and suggested the clothes.
But she hasn't shown me any picture of her avatar already created by her hand.
Her Avatar didn't exist yet.
Therefore the graphical paternity of Jillian's Avatar is undoubtedly mine, while the idea is hers. Any artist willing to draw Jillian's character in the future will have to base it on the first, mine, without alterating it excessively (drawing with his style but keeping it recognizable by my picture).
In this case I can sign that the art and character are mine, but the idea is Jillian's, and we all know it because Jill's avatar is born on PBB exclusively for PBB.
Instead, characters like Labrn, Mystic and Tursi, or even UltimaWolf... have been conceived by them, but their first graphical representation has been done by them or by other artists on their commission, right Labrn? I know and he ( the owner in person) know as well, everyone here know.
So where is the problem?
And by their own choice they gave me as reference the art by those artists to be used as a model (same in opposite: drawing with my style but keeping it recognizable by original references that they give me).
They could even have shown me nothing, and I would have invented a brand new avatar.

But in the moment in which they give me permission to use their characters and draw them in my style, they know all too well that their character will be drawn by me and that I'll put PBB's logo on it.
Also, when Labrn commission Labrn and Mystic to BBMBBF ( another artist who have payment webcomics) sometimes he ask him to use my avatar references ( right labrn?).
Well,BBMBBF can put the logo of Palcomix on his artwork and I do not think to ask him some royaltiss or to put the logo of Bon Bon on his draw since he use PBB avatars created by me ( like strip poker artwork, with my fursona too, in the pinups gallery)!

I absolutely do NOT take other people's characters unless they're the ones that lend me and approve the rule in the first place; else, I repeat, they could give me a new subject to invent for them.

Moreover, let's consider Chessy's case.

Chessy is a Cheshire Cat, a character invented by Lewis Carroll.
Chessy in her gallery has commissioned various artists to draw her character by depicting the cheshire cat as a human. But only I have "anthropomorphized" her character by making her furry. Therefore, although the idea of the Cheshire Cat is lewis Carroll's, and Cheshire Cat/human is Chessy's, the graphical paternity of Chessy/furry for PBB is mine.
The rule that all the Royal Members know well and approve is that if I draw their avatars I can put the logo and credits of PBB on it ( only on my artwork made by me).

Otherwise one just has not to request to have an avatar.

does it make a sense for you ?
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http://www.pleasurebonbon.com

[Gui Cirrus]

It does indeed; thankes for clearing that up. ^^

[Vanessa]

You are welcome
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http://www.pleasurebonbon.com

[LabrnMystic]

Ah, I thought my hunches were correct. Thank you for helping to clear that up Vanessa. You were right on the money with all of those examples.

I for one am very thrilled with the representation of my character that you created, as well as for Mystic. You civilized the look of Labrn, down from the cold and "super hero"-ish version that he once was. Indeed, I've used your avatar of my fursona for reference and I still get the random member on FA who admires and wonders "Who was the artist who did that? Its amazing" and I tell them with pride, "Why, the great Vanessa of Pleasure Bon Bon," and continue to guide them to this place.

Of coarse, I'm sure most of them just lurk and view the images in silence, a bit too shy to interact with others.