SexyFighters.com

[troyholc]

To anyone:

Alley brought it up and since it has little to do with the NEW POPE topic, I thought I would start a new topic. Here's some questions I was wondering:

1. Have you seen Farenheit 9/11?

2. Have you seen Farenhype 9/11?

3. Did your choice to see/not see either of the above films because of your political views or already formed ideas from the press coverage?

4. What is your opinion on the war in Iraq and Afghanistan?

5. Was your opinion changed at all by either film, or by someother media (like these message boards)?

This can be hot button topic, but it seems to me from other post everyone hear respects that these are people's opinions.

Here are my answers:

I have seen both, although not in the theater. I chose not to see Farenheit 9/11 in the theater (Farenhype was never in the theater, at least not in my area) because I had heard Michael Moore on many news programs and didn't want to give him the $10 from the theater. Renting it for $2.50 was a more appropriate rate for me. I do support both wars, although not the Iraq war for the reasons given. I support that one because we said we would help the Shiite's in 1991 if they rose up against Saddam. They did and we didn't. They we slaughtered. I feel we just finally did the right thing and lived up to our word, even if the reasons given were different. In addition, people against the war say we rose up against Britain for our freedom, if people in other countries don't like their government they should do the same. The trouble is we didn't rise up alone. France helped (and only because they hated the British, not because they liked us). Neither really changed my opinion because both had twisted facts - taken parts of reality, mix them with their opinion and spit out their view of the truth. I probably had more issue's with Farenheit 9/11 because at times he went back to Flint, Michigan, near where I live and even spoke about a mall I use to work in and his portrayal of it as a rich mall was ridiculous. I actually live very close to a rich mall and the mall he talked about was nowhere near rich.

troyholc
_________________
... having an idea is better. It's easier to change ideas. Changing a belief is a lot trickier. - 13th Apostle, "Dogma"

[masterjedi]

You're right Troy, this can be a real hot topic, but I'll chime in anyway. I deal with this topic a lot and I take a lot of criticism for my views so it's no big deal to me. With that said:

I did not see either film. I know a little about politics. If you have a view, you give the people information to support your view, and you give counter-information against opposing views. The point is after all, to persuade people to side with you. Sometimes the different views are black and white; murder is definitley wrong, and sometimes the views are very gray; abortion is wrong. But either way, the fact remains, I didn't want to be bombarded with propaganda from the opposing view. Instead, I tried to watch a bunch of different news and read a bunch of different articles to get informed.

I'm a little to young to remember that reasons behind the last Iraqi war, (I was in Middle School) so I'll just talk about the most recent one. After the attack on New York on Sept. 11th, I distinctly remember Saddam coming out and praising Bin Laden for his actions. I also remember him saying that if Bin Laden and the Al Queda needed anything to assist them in commiting further acts of terrorism against us, he would be more than happy to supply them. Money, troops, weapons, whatever Bin Laden needed. That is the only thing I KNOW for a fact because I saw it with my own eyes. There's no way to skew what the man said. Unless they got a stunt double to speak for him, Saddam himself made that statement. In my view, once Saddam said that, he put himself in the same boat as Bin Laden and we had every right to go after him. That was really all I needed. It may sound shitty, but I don't care what political agenda Bush, Kerry, or anyone else had; as long as Saddam was gotten rid of. The man made it clear that he was our enemy. I don't care about oil, or land or money or anything else. I care about our country being safe.

Now, do I agree with the manner in which the war was handled? To a point I do, and to a point I dont. I don't know why the search for Bin Laden seems to have taken a back seat. Not that I don't believe we're still looking for him, but I wish it was being made as public as the search for Saddam was. I HATE the fact that our troops are still dying over there. One can ALWAYS second guess how a war is handled, but I also understand that war is a terrible thing and there IS no right way to handle it aside from NOT doing it. I also understand that sometimes war is inevitable. Man has been fighting about one thing or another for thousands of years and we will continue to fight about one thing or another for thousands of years to come.

I'm not ashamed to say that I voted for Bush both times. Obviously, I wish the entire Iraqi/Afghanistan affair could have been avoided, but I think Bush did the best job he could do. And I don't think Kerry would have gone after Saddam because it's no longer the popular choice. I could not support that. I felt that Saddam and Bin Laden both need to be dealt with, and I respect Bush for going after BOTH of them even though chasing Saddam seems to have made him extremely unpopluar. It takes a brave man to do what is right as opposed to what is easy. (I'm not saying going after Iraq was right, I'm saying I believe going after Saddam was right. I'm in NO WAY trying to tell anyone else that their view is wrong. I'm just stating my view and my reasons for that view.)


P.S. Shouldn't this be in the General forum?
_________________
Don't underestimate the Force.

[Supermark]

[masterjedi]

Thanks Supermark.
_________________
Don't underestimate the Force.

[dally]

As a "foreigner", American opinions on these matters are of great interest and I'll be watching this thread keenly.
Id like to ask one thing if I may. These wars are extremely expensive exercises, is it apparent yet in the US how they're going to be payed for? Are yous "feeling the pinch" in any way yet?

[troyholc]

Dally:

The American politicians don't think about money except in an election year, when each party clains the other is wasting money. Here's the way it works: politicians (especially congressman who run for re-election every two years) want as much money going to their home districts as possible. The trouble is that leaves less money for real needs, like cost of a war. For example, ABCNews reported a few months back that a congressman had an airport for small engine planes built in his district because the nearest airport was over 1 hours drive away. It brings in construction jobs to his district, so the people love it. and it sounds like it could bring in more money for local business as well. The problem is the only person who will be using it is the congressman. They do stuff like this all the time. The current money argument is social security. It will be paying me less money than I have put in it by the time I retire. President Bush wants to allow people the choice of putting it in a private account of stocks/bonds or leaving it in social security. The trouble is in the short term that is less money in there for the current retirees. The democrats just have said they want to raise taxes. The trouble with that is two-fold: they do the type of stuff I said above and the reason social security is a real problem is they have been taking money from it to pay for projects they don't have enough money for. So, basically, the answer to your question is right now, no, we do not feel a real pinch from the government (we do from rising gas prices because unlike other countries, we have virtually no form of public transportation except in the largest cities). The government will just keep taking money from places that they shouldn't and borrowing the rest.

A final interesting fact: I heard on the news a few weeks ago, we still have bills to pay from the Civil War. In case you don't know american history very well, that occured from 1861-1865.

Sincerely,
troyholc
_________________
... having an idea is better. It's easier to change ideas. Changing a belief is a lot trickier. - 13th Apostle, "Dogma"

[dally]

Thanks for your reply Troy. Politicians seek and hold positions of power- power corrupts and this happens everywhere. Saddam Hussein ripped his people off blind .It seems that American liberty and values keep your corruption in relative check, there seems to be too much accountability from the American public and political opponents.This "accountability" is one of the great things about your country, and if this encouraged elsewhere by efficient means, I believe the worlds got to be better for it. Your social security situation sounds like a ripe mess.
Anyway, getting back to your original questions I havent seen either of the two programs .I have recently seen an "ontopic" program, a movie called "Team America". This show didn't alter my opinion but changed the way I look at the whole Iraq/terrorism situation. Here's my take:
The Allies think they're dicks and terrorists are assholes, Bin laden and his mates think they're dicks are we're assholes. They tried to dick us in the ass, we resented it , spun the party around and fucked the assholes. Afghanistan was an asscrack harbouring hidden away assholes(packing shit), no dicks or pussies anywhere resented America for parting those asscheeks and ramming it home. They're now sitting there with a sore ass, and probably(should be) thinking about how they'll use they're dicks from now on.
Saddam Hussein is a thoroughbred asshole. Fifteen years ago he tried to shit on someone. Some dicks didnt like the asshole's style, so they stepped in, spun him around and fucked the asshole all the way back to Baghdad. Three pumps shy of the gravy stroke the dicks pulled out, pussywhipped from home, and left still half-cocked. The asshole was defiant,he sat there with a sore ass and proclaimed "you didn't fuck me, Im the only one that does the fuckin' round here", fuck you assholes!". The dicks went limp , they tried to encourage Iraq to wipe its own ass. They couldn't do it, the shit was too thick. The dicks stepped in again, gave the asshole an ultimatum. The asshole replyed with one last little silent fart, and with that, as ugly as it sounds, the dicks barred up and fucked that asshole into oblivion. Iraq,with some help, is starting to clean up it's own ass, but that asshole left quite a mess, it's gunna take a while.
That pretty well sums it up for me.
Please dont be offended by my take if you haven't seen the movie yet.

[Supermark]

Bravo, Dally! You have a certain knack for explaining things. That was some imagery! I mean, if that doesn't make it clear...

[dally]

Thanks Mark . That summation is based on the theology of the old drunk that approaches actor Gary in a bar in the movie I speak of. Have you seen it? Have you seen it Troy? I think the old guys dicks,pussies, and arseholes theory on power struggle is pretty accurate,you can apply it on a global,national,communal scale,you can even apply it to yourself.I have,I think I'm primarily a dick,but sometimes the pussy in me can make me an arsehole! Actor Gary's application of this theory in his speech at the end of the movie is hilarious and pretty much to the point.

[Supermark]

Nope, I haven't seen that one. But maybe I should cause it sure sounds pretty funny.

[troyholc]

Dally,

No I haven't seen Team America yet, but I really want to. I just haven't found the time. I love South Park and figure anything by these guys has to be funny.

troyholc
_________________
... having an idea is better. It's easier to change ideas. Changing a belief is a lot trickier. - 13th Apostle, "Dogma"

[dickmoyer]

Fahrenhiet 9/11 was all about fat boy making a big profit on a bunch of lies, and guess what he got away with it!