SexyFighters.com

[troyholc]

Masterjedi,

I'm not catholic either, but I am a HUGe European history buff. The big problem with the explanation I am going to give on what the pope does, is that I don't know a lot about Vatican II. From my understanding, the biggest thing about the pope is that he is the only one who can "speak" directly to God. I was raised Nazarene, and I know that they (and Baptist are pretty close to them) believe that you can pray ("speak") to God yourself. You don't have to let someone else do it for you. Also because of this fact, the pope would determine if it is really important enough to let God know about it. I also know he is the ultimate decision maker on saints. Both of these are big reasons Martin Luther formed the protestant church (not like Henry VIII who just got ticked that the pope wouldn't give him a divorce). This isn't a complete explanation, but they are the biggest ones I know of and they may be different since Vatican II.

And as I have said before, my interest in the pope is solely as a world leader and for history (Vatican City is an independant state, i.e. the pope is the POLITICAL leader of Vatican city, as well as the religious one.) Pope John Paul II did great things in the fight against opression by the Soviets and their allies. The way he said a person needs to believe to be a follower of God is a whole other issue. That's where I wonder how Pope Benedict XVI will act as a world leader because, as you said he has so much influence.

Sincerely,
troyholc
_________________
... having an idea is better. It's easier to change ideas. Changing a belief is a lot trickier. - 13th Apostle, "Dogma"

[Supermark]

[masterjedi]

I didn't know Vatican City was a seperate country. The Pope's importance is getting clearer by the minute; he's like our President. Still, I don't understand what exactly is his job when it comes to the Catholic church; other than appointing people to certain positions...
_________________
Don't underestimate the Force.

[Supermark]

[AlleyBaggett]

VERY interesting...

I don't understand how people can praise and worship 1 man so much. To me, it's just weird. What I've learned is to ONLY worship GOD, no one else and nothing else. I do understand though, that there are many people in this world who are different than me and believe in different things.....who live in different countries...and that's okay. That's what makes me interested to know more. There are so many people who live their lives so differently then me.....and it's all fascinating.

The following are just things that I've heard.
I heard on TV that he's a sexist. I also read that he does not believe in using condoms. Does this mean that Catholic guys won't be using condoms? What about pregnany & disease?? I also heard that he doesn't believe that priests should be married. If priests aren't allowed to get married then could that possibly be the cause of harmful acts to children in the church?

I don't know.... just my thoughts. It's been fun chatting with you all about this. I have to say....there are some very fascinating people in here....with some great thoughts.

Thanks for posting!
_________________
xoxoxo
ALLEY!

AlleyBaggett.Net - The Official Site
http://www.alleybaggett.net

[Jmannford]

he does have a sort of scary look. Have you seen the email with a side by side shot of the Pope next to the Evil Emperor of the Star Wars movie? Strikingly similar. There are also some unusual talks about him being the 2nd to last Pope before the "end of the world" or "judgment day." We'll see, right?

[Danielle Désirée]

Well, it´s for sure that Catholics believe that anybody could talk to god. It´s not like they need the Pope as a "medium". As far as I am informed, the special thing about him is that he represents god on earth!
That´s quite a difficult thought I think.
It developed right after the death of Jesus Christ when this follower of his became the first pope.
Damn, I forgot his name. I hope you know this story. Well, he was the one to represent god, Jesus Christ and the holy spirit on earth. That´s what the Pope still does, at least for Catholics...

@ Alley: You are right about the condom thing, but this is nothing that came up only with this new Pope, sadly. It´s still possible for priests to get in trouble for supporting safer sex. Just because the Vatican does not want to allow it, sadly!
I also think that priests should be allowed to marry. Not only because of these child molestation theme, but also because they are talking about love, family, children and things like that so much! How can they ever judge anybody for example because he or she has had a divorce (which is still not allowed), without ever having experienced a relationship with all it´s ups and downs? I think many priests would get more believable and human if they just were allowed to lead a human life...

Concerning women: I guess this is still a sad tradition, because women are said to be impure because of their monthly period. At least that´s what was called to be the reason in former times. I still think this has something to do with religous tradition. I believe in this theory (not mine, I just got it from somewhere): Christianity has always been a religion that spread so widely, because they changed the people´s religions they once had. In the very beginnings people were often Pagans. And Pagan religions worshipped women as goddesses. So if a new religion came up, they had to differ. And what happened is one of the most tragic examples of sex fights in history...

[orange]

[troyholc]

to Supermark: I am quite knowledgable about pre-Vatican II (more so pre-20th century, but it didn't really change until Vatican II). I am certain of the speaking to God issue, but thanks for informing me on post-Vatican II. I thought it had changed, but I was not sure. In the Middle Ages, this was one of the ways the church got money - they would tell the common people that God would let them into heaven if they pay the church a certain amount. This was an order from the pope, and since the people believed he was the only one in direct contact with God (they had to believe this since everything was in Latin and Greek), they trusted it. I hope this doesn't offend you or anyone who may be Catholic on here, but this is a big reason I am very much NOT Catholic. I know they may have changed, but they took all this money from the average person when they could barely afford food solely so the church could be beyond lavish. And once they became less reliant on material goods and seriously wanted to help the poor, what do they do? apologize. My opinion is they should sell many of the more lavish gifts in their collection to get money to help the poor. Of course your not going to sell the vatican or even for the most part the churches, but there are LOTS of artifacts that Museums and obscenely wealthy private collectors would love to have. There's so much they could do with that money to truely help the poor.

To Alley: The thing about the condoms is kind of a tricky issue. Yes, disease, pregnancy are things that can happen if you have unsafe sex. However, the church's point of view is that you only have sex with the person you're married to and only to procreate. This has always been the churches point of view. If this is the way you live your life, disease becomes a non-issue and pregnancy only happens when you want it to. So their view is very logical (also the reason they are against birth contraol pills) if you take their point of view and live your life that way. The trouble is most people don't live their lives that way. So condoms are a good thing. The only thing I think the Catholic church can do if they want to keep this point of view is start excommunicating all those catholics that don't abide by the rules of the church. I honestly believe if you can't follow the rules, don't go around claiming you're part of the church. That's why i don't claim to be part of any Protestant church.

Soncerely,
troyholc
_________________
... having an idea is better. It's easier to change ideas. Changing a belief is a lot trickier. - 13th Apostle, "Dogma"

[Supermark]

Troyholc,
Thank you, I now remember learning about what you're talking about. The selling of indulgences was one of the abuses of the Catholic Church that were called out by Martin Luther, leading to the Protestant Reformation in the 1500s, and the later Counter Reformation, where the Church reformed and corrected its issues. Thanks for the info.

Oh, and regarding contraception, I really believe it's a non-issue, and I just don't understand why people make such a big deal about it. I mean, people are either going to follow the rules of the Church or they're not, right? If they follow them, then they're not having sex before marriage and thus have no use for condoms. If they're not following them, and are disregarding the church's view on sex, then why would they care what the church says about condoms? The answer: they wouldn't. So why do people make a big deal of it? I really think some people just like to complain.

Mark

[AlleyBaggett]

WOw, everyone in here is so smart! Thanks for all the lessons in history...

I really do enjoy reading all your points of views.

About the condom thing.... I understand what you are saying about the church's point of view...but I think they are forgetting that their followers are only human and they will make mistakes and fall into temptation. It seems like the catholic religion is SO strict. I don't know but there are so many different religion's that have so many different rules. I kind of get lost and a lot of them don't make sense to me. I think there's probably some "crookedness" in a lot of religions. I've seen this thing on TV where christian ministers were caught with ear pieces in their ears...while they were praying for people and supposedly God was talking to them telling them about these people and really some person was reading information into their ear piece that was written on some welcome card from the person who needed prayer when they first arrived to the church. These special reporters/investegators also tracked down a VERY popular christian minister....and found that he lived in a HUGGGGEEEE mansion...had all sorts of FANCY/VERY EXPENSIVE cars, yachts and was taking all SORTS of lavished getaway vacations. There are SO many people like my poor mom who still will give these people their last $10 bill in their pockets just because the church and Bible say they are supposed to give X amount of their money. Wait....does the Bible even say that? I know Church's say different amounts....and I never really understood that. I mean....I know "why" they say they are asking for money and it all sounds like its for good....but I was always uncomfortable when a church asks for a certain amount of your weekly earnings. For example 1 church wanted 20%...I thought to myself....the nerve. Also, how do you know if they are being truthful with this money? I prefer to donate to reputable charities.

Oh, I know this is way off topic but I just saw Farenheit 9/11 and OH MY !!!! I have a new found dislike for Bush. There is so much about him that I didn't know....although I never really cared for him anyway.

Oh one more last thing...I saw this picture of the pope where he is carrying this rod like thing....but from this certain angle that the picture was taken it looked like a big knife. The picture looked kind of scary. Has anyone else seen that photo? Just wondering... I hope I didn't offend anyone by saying that. Jmanford....what are the unusal talks you were referring to? just wonderin'
_________________
xoxoxo
ALLEY!

AlleyBaggett.Net - The Official Site
http://www.alleybaggett.net

[Spookie]

A lot of stuff from Farenheit 9/11 is missleading. They cut stuff out. Only put what they want, wich is mostly to bash Bush. I dont care for Bush really, but Not all the stuff on that video was correct.

[dally]

Bush has the same problem our prime minister Howard has. They both have "little man's syndrome".

[Stephen]

Hi Alley,
Very interesting subject. I suppose the thing about tithing or giving money to an organized religion or any organization seems to be about priorities. My understanding of what Jesus taught is not to get too attached to money or possessions because they all pass away only he does not God does not love does not. So when he says "give to anyone who asks and don't ask your property back from the man who steals it" which is the more of what he says in the "Sermon on the Mount" he is just saying life and love and belief in God are more important. The percentage is from the old testament and while its probably not wrong it does impose a structure to giving and that is where alot of people get stuck. The message reads "give". They get stuck in that part and don't get the rest which is really good. The Good News. What Jesus said in the Bible in Matthew Chapters 5,6, and 7 and it doesn't take that long to read. Wow, what a mouthful. I do enjoy reading what you think Alley. Thanks, your wonderful, have a great day.
Maybe what your Mom gets from giving that last ten is more than we know.

[troyholc]

Alley,

I'm glad to hear you enjoy these response. I do have a couple to your recent post. First, the condom/church thing. I understand your view on the condom issue, but as I said before; if you can't handle the rules, don't say your part of the religion. That's what Henry VIII did: the pope wouldn't give him a divorce, so he basically said "screw you" and claimed he was now the head of the church in England and gave himself the divorce (this was the formation of Anglican church). The money issue is just like what stephen said, but the 10% thing I was always taught to take it as 10% of what you can give: time, money, food, etc.

As for what you said about Fareneit 9/11, recheck my post from February:

http://forums.alleybaggett.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1268&highlight=

As I said there, I rented out Farenheit 9/11 (even though I swore I never would), but also Farenhype 9/11 to get a balanced view. Before you take everything Michael Moore said at face value, watch Farenhype 9/11. A couple of the same people are in both because Michael Moore's people misled them. A good example of a misleading statement: he claims that one state trooper guards 100 miles of oregons coast. That may be, but it isn't his responsibility - it's the responsibility of the US Coast Guard, a federal job, not a state job. I also have one on the post above that I personally can address.

I look forward to reading your response.

troyholc
_________________
... having an idea is better. It's easier to change ideas. Changing a belief is a lot trickier. - 13th Apostle, "Dogma"

[Jmannford]

Here is the article that says that this Pope signals an impending "Doomsday." Not that I am worried or anything, but enjoy;)

Oh, check all the latest on the inaccuracies of the 9/11 movie too, seems like both men are full of it and untrustworthy.

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/s/nm/pope_prophecy_dc

[Down South]

I haven't seen either one of the 9/11 movies...probably never will...I wouldn't take either one to serious...consider the sources of the films...whoever makes any kind of political film will slant it towards their beliefs and make the other guy or party out to be less than stellar so to speak.

Politics and Religion...those are some doozy subjects to talk about...
_________________
Down South ~ "The AB Nation will be there when you do."
Alley ~ "The AB Nation.....that's a cute little saying."

[Supermark]

[morgan]

what facts are false in farenheit 9/11 ? The family of Ben Laden ? The ambassador of Saudi Arabia ? Halliburton ?

[Danie]

Alley, If you beleive that God is God and is perfect and that men and women are not then the only logical place you can find the truth is by talking with God and reading the Bible, God's word. I beleive God uses people, but people are not perfect. If someone tells you "this is the truth" then they are telling you what they beleive to be the truth, and if that truth does not come from God then they have no basis on which to stand. Then it is only their opinion.

God is absolute, there are no maybe's or just this one time's. Agree with God or not, you know what your getting. I am by no means a biblical scholar but I can respect the fact that christianity is not wishy-washy. If God says no sex before marriage, then even if I don't like it, I have to beleive it is right because God said so. Therfore it makes perfect sense that the church would be against contraception. Condoms and birth control are tools used to help negate the ill effects of sex before marriage. They are used to kind of get around what God has said not to do. I don't think condoms are evil, I am sure they have saved many lives, but that is not the issue. If there is a guy going around shooting people with a gun, is the solution to give him rubber bullets?

Men are men and they cannot change God. That is why I don't understand when people say the church needs to modernize. It is not a game, you can't just change the rules. I know it is very difficult to find a local church that preaches solely from the bible. So it becomes even that much harder to learn the truth, and to determine what changes to the church might be returning the church to what God intended, and what changes are for the purpose of making people feel good or less guilty and more politically correct.

Knowledge is not wisdom Alley. If you beleive you are close to God then follow your heart. And most importantly, be honest with yourself. I know if you spend time and think about what you hear and ask "what is this persons motivation?" it will be much easier to recognize honesty. Truth very rarely comes from hate, and becomes even more rare when money is involved.
_________________
Who doesn't love Queen Alley?

[mt]

Brings up an interesting point. Commandments says not to commit adultery or covet/envy thy neighbors wife and property. Since Alley is essentially married to her lucky boytoy, are we all to meet in hell on the fast lane?
It's also interesting that it says God is a jealous God, and that we shall not worship any other God. Could that then be why we all have the green monster in all of us. So then, if God has his/her/it's faults, how are we, mere humans, whom are but mere dust particles in his/her presence, be realistcally expected to not faulter in our journey to heaven.

Knowledge and wisdom are two halves of the same coin. You cannot expect someone to know what is good without him/her knowing what is bad. Adam did eat the apple, so we gained knowledge. I'm sure God meant for us to exercise thought with such big brains.
_________________
In a perfect world, you get all Alley, all the time.

[AlleyBaggett]

HI Stephen,

I understand and I agree with you and the scripture about giving....and all. I have NO problem with that what so ever. What I didn't understand was the % amount. Thanks for your suggestion on the chapters. I will soon read them. I don't believe it's wrong for my mom to give her last ten dollars...(although sometimes I do because she struggles so much)...I believe it's wrong for that minister/preacher to make fun of her for doing so....and putting it straight in his pocket. When I say this....I am referring to this special report I saw where a really popular minister did just that and they had actual footage of him saying and doing that act.

Hello Troyholc,
I was more amazed by how Bush started off in the oil biz and how he became "connected" to the BIN LADIN family. Those all have to be facts. Your example of the state trooper...might be a good example....BUT...WAS not as important to me as a lot of the other stuff that was shown in the movie.

Hmmm Jmannford,
Do you think the anti-christ will come in our life time? Farenheit 9/11 still made me laugh in a few places.

Down South,
Sorry for askin' but what do you mean by doozy subjects to talk about?

Supermark,
Maybe I can't trust any propaganda but I can't trust a president who seems to be too "shady" with things. It just seems like it's all about money with him...among so many other things. You know, I feel sorry for TX and the rest of us too...who have to deal and live with pollution. The pollution in TX has now passed up LA's worst pollution record. At least LA is TRYING to have a handle on the pollution and air quality and TX does not have to pay any fines of any sorts if they do not meet the standards. I did a look up to see how many refineries, chemical plants and power plants are in each state and TX had a LLLLOONNNGGGG list of them....while other states had 4 or as much as 25. TX WAY passed 25... I know it's the biggest state and all but come on. I bring this up because Bush owns oil in TX. It seems as if not many people are trying their best to do something now about our air's future. For example our President....and what's with this chemical the Vatican burns to make the smoke turn color? I'm sure that's not nearly as much as a chemical plant burns in TX but it's still unhealthy to do. Two wrongs don't make a right. I don't know....anyway...let me go on to the next post....

THANK YOU MORGAN, That's a good question...what facts would you say are false in the movie Farenheit 9/11? Remember, what facts?

Danie, I agree with you 99% BUT I believe that we should modernize the church because times have changed unfortunately. People are not the same...as they were back in the days. There's lots more corruption, murder, teen pregnancy and etc. There are "new" problems that we now face that people did not have to face back in the day. I AM STRONGLY against the beliefs of parents who hit their kids with an object as punishment because it says to do so in the Bible (The Old Testament). I believe if you want to teach your children not to hit others then you can't hit them yourself. Anyway...I better end it here or else I'll just keep going...



Danie....one last thing, I do love your inspiring words of God. THANK YOU.

Has anyone ever watched Politically Incorrect? I loved that show. They mix opinions with facts and humor. It's great!
_________________
xoxoxo
ALLEY!

AlleyBaggett.Net - The Official Site
http://www.alleybaggett.net

[Jmannford]

(antichrist in our lifetime) - but I am not too worried about it. Faith is enough, but see you "there" if I am wrong? And I have had the opportunity to meet at social settings both the Pres and Moore, both are jerks I didn't find funny. (Maybe it was the secret service checking you everytime you came back from the bathroom, at it was a wedding, so lots of beer and champagne running through me). But anyway, they didn't pass the Jmannford sniff test. I do divorce work among other fun legal things, so I am pretty good at judging who is full of it. I like all of the jokes razzin the Pres better than 9/11 flick. Being from Deep South Texas, I can appreciate the "Tequila in the Whitehouse" skit. Glad you enjoyed though. Isn't it funny how everyone is nice too you and beggin for pictures of you in a thousand different outfits, poses, etc., but you mention religion and they turn on you? Religion is a funny topic, but I'll still look though, if you don't mind!!

[santiago]

Reading this thread I just realized that I am completely the opposite of Alley's political views. Democracy is great, isn't it?!!!!!

[Supermark]

[orange]

[troyholc]

Alley,

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say in my post. I do realize there was much more serious issues in Farenheit 9/11 than the one I stated. I just used that as an example of his misleading statements. If you watch Farenhype 9/11 and dig around on the internet, you will find that the Bin laden-Bush relationship isn't the way he stated it in the movie. I'm not going to state what it said because I can't recall exactly and I don't want to mislead you. I also feel it is better to find out from the source. Sorry again for mot making myself clear.

troyholc
_________________
... having an idea is better. It's easier to change ideas. Changing a belief is a lot trickier. - 13th Apostle, "Dogma"

[Down South]

You've never heard someone say doozy (sp. doozie) Alley? As in, "Watch that first step! It's a doozy!"

What I meant was that these two subjects are generally considered taboo to talk about for obvious reasons. Not that it's wrong to talk about these two...but more often than not the "discussion" ends up with people taking things personal and going a little nuts. I'm talking about out in the public, not on this forum which has been very civil considering the subjects.

For instance this saying, "Republicans believe in the 4th of July while Democrats believe in April 15th." will bring out different emotions in people. So depending on where your political beliefs lie, you'll either find this statement amusing or just down-"left" repulsive. Pardon the pun...
_________________
Down South ~ "The AB Nation will be there when you do."
Alley ~ "The AB Nation.....that's a cute little saying."

[Stephen]

Hi Alley,
I got what you said about your Mom and I do the same thing sometimes and my family gets down on me for giving to the wrong people and getting taken advantage of. There was a Priest I heard once who said that if you aren't getting taken advantage of occasionally you aren't trusting enough. Giving maybe is like love you love and it doesn't work out and you can stop loving or you can look at it like a muscle, your love muscle. Maybe giving is like that you give and it doesn't work out what we're working on is the strength in trusting. Am I rambling? I guess, yes. Well, while I ramble I've been meaning tyo tell you that my son had said the same thing you did about the picture of the new Pope the night before I read your comment on the message board. So, you are not alone I don't think he meant anything by it, it was just a reaction. Also, a good documentary is "OUTFOXED" about the Fox News Network.
I like your layout in the Loyal Members Section. You were a busy girl in 1999.
stephen

[troyholc]

In response to Stephen's last post:

I really would NOT recommend "Outfoxed" unless you already think Fox News is the spawn of Satan because it will just reinforce your feelings. This was a horrible documentary because the so called "evidence" for most of it was from an anonymous former employee. This is one area where I do give Michael Moore credit - at least all of his evidence is out there with names of sources so the information can be checked and verified. If you're someone who is willing to trust a source that is unverifiable - go ahead and rent it otherwise, stick to more reputable documentaries. I will take Michael Moore's open sources, no matter how misleading some may be, over an anonymous one any day of the week. Maybe it's just the scientist in me needing to verify facts before I accept them.

troyholc
_________________
... having an idea is better. It's easier to change ideas. Changing a belief is a lot trickier. - 13th Apostle, "Dogma"